Selco & Toby: Is Strategic Relocation or Adaptation the Answer?

Today, we continue in our series of interviews between Selco and Toby as they discuss what the prepper needs to know about strategic relocation. You can watch the full video by scrolling all the way to the bottom.

Toby

So we’re going to carry on where we left off quite simply. So if you didn’t listen to the last recording, you’re definitely going to want to before you listen to this one. But as we finished the last one, where we were basically on about needing to accept the changes that are happening in society in order to adapt to them. But there, of course, is a point that it might be, for whatever reason, in your circumstances in your region, your area, your country, that you just find it completely unacceptable to think about this future and adapt to it.

And quite simply, then you’ve effectively got two options available to you. One is to engage the political process and affect those changes you want to see. But the problem being other than the absolute most minimal grassroots level sort of your neighborhood, the political process is so sort of rigged that it’s gonna be very hard for you to access it. Especially if you’re not on the general agenda. And so, I’m just gonna invite you in at that point because obviously, you’re dealing with very complex regional politics there. And then, on paper, that change could be effective. People want it, but it’s just never happened in the last 30 years. So, is that just because the political process is just stagnated and self-protecting?

Selco

Oh, political process, I put it simple like this political process is a completely an absolutely corrupt that is at the end. Actually, I say exists only because of the reason to feed itself if that make sense.

Toby

And give folks the illusion of choice. Yes.

Selco

Yes. So, for example, if you want to, to involve yourself into being political option of change. First, you are not going to have power to start because every other political officer wants to shut you down. Because they do not want change. Because they have money in power. And secondly, even if you – if you some kind – if even if you somehow succeed into that, there is a huge chance that eventually you are becoming part of it. Why? Because you also go into like power and money and have everything. So you are going to be absolutely the same.

To go back to whole, let’s say problem or main – main question of this. I will mention something that it is – it’s really huge thing in prepper community. Things like strategic relocation or even bugging out. Strategic relocation may have sense if you have huge amount of money and if there is an event that is geographically happening only in some part. If you are part of country or world, if you are talking about an event that is happening worldwide, or in your whole country, which was mentioned this pandemic. That and pandemic and everything that is – that follows this pandemic. There is not too much sense of strategic relocation, but because most probably same – same problems going to wait you over there. 

So strategic location in these kind of situations kinda do not have sense. Mostly bugging out. Bugging out on a way that most of the people imagine it also might not work in this situation. By because we are not talking here about event that is going to last, let’s say, for three months. You are – so you are going to sit in your bugout cabin in the woods and eat your canned food or hot animals and wait for the events to pass so you can go back. Now, this is going to last might last for years.

So question is, are you ready to leave the society? Because you do not agree with all this and live in the wilderness or cabin in the woods? That – that’s a real question. Are you ready for this?

Toby

Clarify that the bugging out really from our perspective was always a short-term solution. It was a case of leaving a higher threat area for a lower threat area until that situation is resolved itself. Typically in three weeks or less maximum sort of three months or less. And then moving back. So that’s bugging out. Strategic relocation is, I’m leaving never to come back again. Right?

Selco

Yes. So I’m not going to say bugging out is going to be out of the option because we are not actually sure what exactly is waiting for us over there. So maybe you are going to find us of running away to your secret location for some time. Because it’s going to be safer, safer over there. 

My point here is, in these kinds of prolonged event, most probably you are not going to be able to run away from the event. Why? Sorry, it is obvious. You have job, kids are still going to school society still kind of – running away. Running water working around you. Everything is still working, but you do not like wait, that is work if that makes sense. So are we going to run away from that things? Well, you can, but you are not going to solve your problems. You are going to have even the bigger problem if you do that. Solution is to accept it. And kind of to find peace with it. How I call it, I call it to find Zen with it. And it is actually, oh, absolutely the thing that I’m doing here, in my place in my region for years. 

 I do not like – I hate all of this here. But I find my peace, my Zen with it, and I find my I find solution to work with it, I learn to work with it. And I do that, can I fight it? Yes, of course. But who I will lose it immediately. And I do not want to die or be jailed, so I’m not fighting it. Right now. If I going to have chance to win it, yeah, I will fight it, I learned I find peace, kind of peace, and I live with it. That’s, that’s something that a lot of you are going to probably want to have to do in next period of time.

Toby

And I think it’s fair to say that that’s largely because people are a victim of their circumstances. If it was just you on your own, you would strategically relocate. And we’ll talk more about that in a second. But within your sort of, you know, societal situation, work situation, family situation, it’s not just you and just your decision. It’s multiple factors that have all got to be counterbalanced. Or just dealt with that mean, you know, it’s not an option now, or possibly ever, right?

Selco

Oh, well, put it like this, it is not going to be option for prolonged period of time. So you, your priority is to find a way to work in this kind of environment as best as you can. Because as long as you keep yourself tied to old ways of doing things, you are going to lose connection and people and everything in this new society. If this makes sense. You need to learn how to operate in this new, new environment.

Toby

And quite simply, the sooner you adapt, the quicker you accept, the more you can thrive in that. Because whilst other people are lingering in the denial and constantly hearken on engaging with social media and screaming and frothing at the mouth, you’re already making those new networks. Getting trained in this new mindset, getting new skills, getting ahead of the curve. Just like we said before, that’s what preparedness is, is getting ahead of the curve, buying yourself some peace of mind and a degree of comfort to make informed decisions. While everybody else is hitting the crisis moment, there’s already passed or been bypassed for you.

Selco

Always, it is always about being ahead of most of the people around you. I will use another example here. Sorry. I always mentioned that you need to have stash of goods or food of everything if something bad happened. But it does not necessarily mean that you need to have food or ammo, energy, and everything for three months for a period of three months that you need to back in and not to go out. No, you need to have all of that for a period of time until you figure out who is who outside in this new world. So the point is not to be forced to do stupid things because you are hungry. It’s simple like that. You need to – you need to have things that you can comfortably check for the situation in New World if this makes sense. 

(Check out our free QUICKSTART Guide on emergency evacuations while we’re talking about it.)

Toby

Yes. So it basically buys you time to choose who, where and how you engage with certain things or solve certain problems. Like you say, if you’re forced out of your home because you’ve got no fuel, you’ve got no food, you’ve got no water, you’re just gonna have to take whatever is on offer, no matter how desirable it is. If you’ve given yourself that backstop and a bit of a buffer, you can be like, “Okay, you know, I’m gonna I’m a spender. Couple of weeks kind of working with this organization or getting to know these people and get a stronger, more long-lasting relationship, instead of this desperate, urgent begging. If I had nothing.” And that sets you up as a better precedent and a more reliable person moving forward, right? And now that is the essence of community building, or community engagement, as we’ve talked about previously.

Selco

Definitely, yes, definitely. 

Toby

Now, I just want to touch on that, because for some people, there might be conflict in mindset to be like, “Well, that’s why I strategically relocate because I’m going to move to a place with people who identify with politics I find acceptable and with a society and organization I want.”

And if that’s an option and accessible, we’re not saying don’t do that. But I think we just want to be careful of this sort of Utopia mindset of. If I just move here, everything’s going to be perfect, because as someone who has strategically relocated, I moved countries 14 years ago, and I’ve lived in now three separate very, very small societies, very small communities. And whilst it’s solved some problems, it’s definitely bought unique challenges along with it. And your perception of the society you’re moving to and the reality is often very, very different.

And as the foreigner or the newcomer, or the person that wasn’t born and raised there, you’re already. An acceptable, let’s say, or, or you’re already downside. So can we just talk about that a little bit more? Because I think, you know, again, we’re not taking strategic relocation off the table, but it’s like, do it eyes wide open. So unless you’ve, you know, unless you’ve got very strong family connection there. And even then, like all Hallmark movies, like if you moved to the city, 20 years ago, now you’re coming back home, people are really distrustful and suspicious of you. And that’s even with a family connection, but with no family connection, you just kind of buying up the land and moving there, “Hey, neighbor, I’m your neighbor.” Now, there’s some – there’s some problems there that right?

Selco

Let’s – let’s simplify what you provide. If you – if you are going to do strategic relocation because you are moving away from the trouble or problem or danger, that’s good. If you are going to strategically locate yourself because you are moving away from the problem or trouble just to find out same problem in trouble over there you are moved, you are going to be in much worse situation.

Why? Because you are at a new place with new people with new situation new surroundings, everything is kinda new, you are not living you did not live there, it is a new place to you. So, in this situation, when we are talking about or event that is happening everywhere. To strategically locate it doesn’t make sense, except if you have on that place everything better than a place where you really, for example, better network, more family or more natural sources and everything. 

If you are relocating because of that, then it makes sense, because bad situation is everywhere, yes, but you relocated because you have better network over there that makes sense. In prepper movement everywhere strategic location for events that are happening worldwide. It simply does not work. Because people are, people are fixated on strategic location on a way that they will, for example, they are doing strategic location because they are moving to wilderness, for example, or something like that. 

 But again, say without network without natural resources, without clear plans. So be careful, really be careful, it does not necessarily have to be bad decision. But be careful because this kind of situation that is happening everywhere he can really change or change the rules.

Toby

And I think tied in with that. That’s the key takeaway for me there as those rules change. Especially if you’re in a, you know, a different society or a different culture or a different country. There’s no loyalty to you. So I could imagine, people let’s use the US as an example, you know, can sort of buy their way out or can go down to South America or something like that. And then money can go a lot further. And they can have a very nice standard of living and can probably live in a relatively secure, gated community with security and all this at the other end and feel good. But that lasts as long as it lasts. But that’s that Utopia mindset, isn’t it?

The moment those locals think it’s better off exploiting you than protecting you, you don’t get a say. There’s no vote in that, that’s just gonna happen. And that’s for you to monitor the baseline and understand if that’s about to happen. That’s your 24 hour or less problem. And now I’m bugging out that you’re always gonna have to have a contingency on your contingency.

Selco

Yes.

Toby

And I’ll highlight that from my own personal experience. You know, the – where I moved to. First, when I moved to Sweden, which, which was literally the perfect location, if I’m honest with you. I’ll pat myself on the back that I really did my homework, and I kind of nailed it. And because of a certain circumstance, I had to move out without within seven weeks, you know, and I wanted to be out within three weeks because of what happened. But it took me seven to actually get out of there. And that was a very, very uncomfortable period of time. But you know, it is what it is. And but I’d had that contingency plans, even it was the perfect setup, it was like, never forget, you might just have to drop everything and leave. And if not, drop everything you might need to relocate quickly. And same around now. Very happy. But there’s – there’s always those contingency plans.

Selco

Of course, and do not forget one. One simple thing, when – when things go really bad and really mad. First, one that are going to look guilty are people that are different from majority of folks around them. Why? It is human who it is big, big topic, but let’s keep it that it is human psychology that look that to find guilty ones among different among them if that makes sense. So if you are, I don’t know, relocated to some, some completely different parts of the world, or accept to be target when – when things go really bad. It’s simple like that.

Toby

Absolutely. And I think that you know, there’s a bunch of historical precedent of that, you know. Certainly down in Africa. The expat community is being, you know, targeted in specific times of trouble, or held accountable. And the activity, that’s why they’re buying their way out and getting the first flights out of the country. Right? Because they see the trouble coming, or their staff or their help, that they have treated kindly with dignity with humanity. I’ve given their heads up and said, you probably want to pack your bags and go, and those that treated the staff badly, you know, disrespectfully? Probably, you know, their help helped get them off. Right. Yep. To help with the ones seem like this is the guy you want to get.

So it’s, it’s, again, one of the things with strategic relocation is often you just you crashing through the problems with money, right? If you look at Elon Musk, moving from California to Texas, he’s saying, “Well, I’m bringing a mega factory, I’m going to create ten and a half 1000 jobs, and I’m going to bring all this taxpayers money with me.” If you’re not moving that weight of wealth, there’s issues. But even if you’re moving that weight of wealth, that doesn’t exonerate you from any of the rules of society or societal contracts. So if he makes a big splash in Texas and upsets everybody, including the other billionaires. He’s gonna find it, he’s gonna find he’s got some issues, right?

Selco

Yep. Yes.

Toby

And that’s even with that amount of money behind the problem, yes. And most of us are not in that category. So we say –

Selco

I mean, he will, he will now we are talking about bad times. There are a situation goes like this. One day, you are you are sowing into solving problems around you with money. And tomorrow, that money is problem to you, because you are target because of that money. And it’s simple like that.

Toby

So with that in mind, I think we’ve sort of made a case for the pros and cons for this strategic relocation. But I just want to come back to your sort of Zen, you know. Finding the peace in chaos. Because, you know, for some people now, especially in the mindset, they’re in a, they’re upset, and they’re angry, and they’re resentful. And it’s like, “Well, I’m not going to find peace with this Selco, and why should I?”

And I think it’s really important to address the fundamentals, the physiology of why you need to come to that acceptance and adaptation. Because you’ve obviously seen a lot of people perished quite simply in the war and after because of holding all of this anger and anxiety and stress within them, right?

Selco

Yes. If you do not accept, we can talk about danger of this from two sides. If you do not accept reality around, you. First, you are going to deteriorate on – on, let’s say, psychological side. Excuse me, another side of it. If you do not accept reality of it, you are – you are going to the deteriorate on physical side of it. Or in other words, we are not going to perform well. And in times like this, you need to perform well, or you need to do as best as you can. You cannot, you cannot do as best as you can, if you are full of anger to the new situation and full of, of grief for – for old times. You need to accept new situation and to give best of you in order to adapt and to work your way through all of this. 

Now, all of this sounds may be ridiculous. But I will say here something that I’ve mentioned a lot mentioned many times when people ask me, how did you mentally cope? You can say that I didn’t cope, you can say it like that because I didn’t look too – too far. I just look from day to day, pushed push day, today. You don’t necessarily have to do that. But whenever situation go really bad to you that you cannot psychologically kinda or mentally kind of cope with not accepting it, go back again to basics and push day by day. That’s one way of dealing with it. Of course, we cannot be – cannot forget, or we cannot keep aside religion out of this. It is choice of each one of us how to use religion and spirituality in all of this as people, let’s be – let’s be honest here. People or used to be it in much, much harder situation than we are. And people succeed. So maybe that’s – that’s your choice, use it.

Toby

Understood. And I just want to reiterate a point there that obviously we’re looking at both the psychological and the physical capabilities, and or incapacitation. And so if you’re holding that anger and resentment, or hatred or rage, as you say, and you’re having to then introduce coping mechanisms to deal with that. Whether it be drinking excessively or taking medication. That is compromising your performance, you know. And we’re saying we’re prepared to go towards a more violent society.

So, yeah, if you’ve got to get drunk every night or get high every night to sleep, but then you get in dealing with home invasions, you’re not performing. Quite simply, you’ve completely compromised yourself because you failed to manage your condition successfully. So, again, it’s not saying that you’ve got to accept it to be happy about it. But you’ve got to accept it to adapt to it and introduce positive or the least disruptive coping mechanisms. Right?

Selco

Uh, definitely. Oh, as you said it, and as we keep saying that you don’t have to like it. Nobody says that, that you need to love it, but you need to work with it. Otherwise, and yes, it is common sense as we are going in situation that – that is going to deteriorate more and more. You are going to be forced to perform on a much higher scale, if that makes sense. 

Or in other words, you need to be absolutely and fully ready mentally and physically, and you are not going to be ready if you are. If you are still do not believe that this is happening around you. Now you can accept it on the bad way. You can accept it that this sucks, but you need to live it, or you can – you can kind of mentally not accept it but push it away from you. Day by pushing it day by day. It’s up to you. It’s up to you, but you need to perform in good way, and you cannot perform it if you are not deal with this or in your mind.

Toby

Understood. And I think a lot of people as the – as we go through now, between Christmas and New Year will be reflecting on the year and looking forward. And sort of having that quite strong internal conversation with themselves Or possibly even within their inner circle about what are they thinking for the future and what are they doing and what are they considering. And again, from my viewpoint, and I think you’ll agree with me no matter what happens in the future.

Working on your physical condition has no doubt all sides to it at all. No matter how fit and strong you are, you could always be fitter, stronger. And no matter how unfit and, you know, unhealthy you are. There’s always that day you can make that decision to say, “Today’s the day. I’m going to actively take control of myself and try to improve my condition and improve myself.” Whether that be, you know, reduce the amount you smoke or drink or the weight that you are. Whatever the case may be. Because that – that physicality carries over a lot into the psychology in how well you can cope with adverse circumstances. Is that a fair comment?

Selco

Oh, definitely. And it goes under that. When you are not sure what to do, go back to the basics. Well, what is more basic than your physical state? Why would you keep worrying or being angry and yelling about things that you cannot change it? Instead of that, go back to the basics and be more prepared?

Toby

A great summary point, you know, yeah, holding the anger in that rage is counterproductive. If you do it all the time, have it in you, you know. If you need to project that in intense moments, and especially in violent altercations, that’s a superpower to tap into. But it’s knowing when to unleash that and when to put it back in the box and truly be at peace with it, you know. Not the seething, bubbling anger, but it’s like now that anger sits there. And if I need to tap into it, it’ll come out, and it’ll be ferocious. But other than that, it’s just dormant, and it doesn’t dominate mine. Yes.

Selco

Definitely. Yes, I agree.

Toby

Awesome. Anything else you want to say on this? We wanted to keep this one relatively short because again, it’s – it’s there’s – there’s a lot of information to unpack in this. And I’m aware, we’ve not had access to you for a while. So, any final thoughts just – just on this particular theme? The strategic relocation or coming to acceptance of the deteriorating situation you find yourself in.

Selco

Strategically location based on this latest events in lightest, the past months and years and strategic location. I will do – I will simply for the people that have considering the strategic location, I would give them advice that – that put more investment. If they are already going to do that, to put more investment in building network around that strategic new strategic location. Or about things that I call finding Zen. It is nothing – it is this situation is nothing new. Our – our ancestors are being through much worse things, and they survived. So you can survive. You are going to survive. This is not nothing, nothing to you for humanity. You just need to wait to find your way, how to cope, how to accept it.

Toby

And that’s – that’s on you as the individual. That’s the key thing that we’re saying here is taking that self-responsibility for your own welfare. It’s not for society to adapt to you or find your solutions. You need to internalize and think, “How can I find my peace in this situation?”

Selco

Yes, we are at the moment, but where – where you really need to realize that society is not going to change because of you. Especially not – not in this moment. You need to adapt to it.

Toby

Awesome, Selco. Thank you so much for your time again, it’s really great to hear from you. And I know, obviously, a lot of our listeners and viewers are – are in, you know, anxious and stressful times right now. And we don’t wish to sort of undermine that or dismiss that. We are sharing this advice precisely because so many people are really, really struggling to deal with this situation right now. As always, share your thoughts in the comments below any questions. Put them down there, and we’ll respond to as best we can. And we’ll go from there. So thank you so much for your time.

Selco

Thank you.

What are your thoughts?

What do you think gives you the best chances of survival in these times, adaptation or relocation? Why did you choose that answer? Let’s discuss it in the comments.

About Selco:

Selco survived the Balkan war of the 90s in a city under siege, without electricity, running water, or food distribution. 

In his online works, he gives an inside view of the reality of survival under the harshest conditions. He reviews what works and what doesn’t, tells you the hard lessons he learned, and shares how he prepares today. He never stopped learning about survival and preparedness since the war. Regardless of what happens, chances are you will never experience extreme situations as Selco did. But you have the chance to learn from him and how he faced death for months.

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