Recently, what I believe to be an incredibly original idea has been floating around the preppersphere. It’s this: in the event of a cyberattack, should we all meet at the library at 9 AM every Saturday?
We’ve long been tracking the current “discussion” about the need to prepare for a massive cyber pandemic, the likes of which the world has never seen. The World Economic Forum has discussed this notion extensively, even going as far as to conduct yet another one of their notorious simulations to experiment with what the outcomes of such an attack could look like.
The public conversation within the mainstream media of such a concept has only grown since then. In fact, we’ve seen a 50% increase in the number of cyberattacks year-over-year from 2020 to 2021.
And then, there’s the Russia-Ukraine situation.
Apart from globalist politicians within the US attempting to start a nuclear war with Russia, we also have this to consider: a number of analysts are predicting that should NATO expansion be permitted to continue throughout Eastern Europe, Russia is likely to begin their response with a massive cyberattack campaign.
We already know that they have submarines equipped with nuclear warheads which can apparently sneak past our defenses without our knowledge. We also know that mutually-assured destruction no longer exists. Russia’s missile defenses have surpassed ours, to the point that anything we launch their direction is likely to be stopped before it ever reaches its target.
In return, we could not stop their salvos.
However, Unrestricted Warfare dictates that there are other options that are likely to be used first before a nuclear discussion is ever brought to the table (though in many ways, that discussion is already here).
Consider that Russia has moved a massive amount of electronic warfare equipment into position along the Ukrainian border. Did you know that Ukraine recently experienced a massive cyberattack, likely at the hands of the Russians, just the other week?
One of the best ways that Russia could assure that it is able to reach its goals is to launch a cyberattack campaign against NATO/American forces.
These types of attacks could easily be directed against our electrical grid, as Ted Koppel laid out in his superb book Lights Out. Our water supplies are not invincible as well. We’ve recently witnessed several hacker attacks on American cities’ water supplies, where outside actors caused excessive levels of “cleaning” chemicals to be poured into the water supply.
What else is connected to the grid?
Imagine what a cyberattack against America’s largest health insurance providers could result in. Think about what would happen if banking systems were targeted? What about hospitals, factories, or communications companies?
The point is that we’re hearing the WEF discuss the possibility of a massive cyberattack, we have an at-risk system here, proof-of-concept has already been demonstrated against many of America’s cyber systems, and now we have a state-level actor that has the incentive they need to actually launch some type of cyber attack against us.
All of this returns us to the original idea.
Let’s say that in the near future, there will be a massive cyber attack against America. Let’s also assume that it specifically targets the electrical grid.
In the event of a nationwide blackout for an unknown duration of time, what do you think about the concept of having an established plan in your community for people to meet at their local library?
Many communities have more than once, so there would be bound to be a library within a matter of miles from a great bulk of the US population. Would this serve as a Rawlesian means of community post-collapse?
(For advice on how to keep food stocked for post-disaster bartering, check out our free QUICKSTART Guide to home canning. Then, make sure you read this book.)
What are the potential benefits of saying “Let’s meet at the library?”
For starters, the spread of information. The majority of Americans do not have any radio communications ability. If they want to know what is happening in the world and their community post-disaster, a local meeting point is the only way they’re liable to get that information.
Secondly, this could prove as a great means of starting a barter market. Much like the market mentioned in Rawles’ Patriots, this could serve to be a location where people could bring what they have stocked already or have recently produced to trade for the goods and services that they desperately need.
No man is an island, and people are going to have SOMETHING that you need after a disaster, and this could prove a great means to get those items.
Third, this could prove as a great means of organization. If the community is meeting on a regular basis, it will be able to do what it can to ensure its own security and safety. Roadblocks, patrols, sentries, police – all of that could be organized at a public library that meets at 9 AM every morning.
Fourth, this idea could help people to discover what the needs are in their area. Perhaps I would have no other means of knowing that the old lady four blocks over needs food unless somebody brought me that information. Something to think about here.
What are the potential cons of this idea?
For starters, there’s always the risk that comes from traveling post-disaster. Disasters are inherently dangerous situations, and the farther away from home you are after they strike, the more at risk you are.
The risk that comes from being followed home should also be pointed out. Let’s say that a barter market is set up at the library. If you’re noted to be the guy who regularly trades ammunition, somebody may get the bright idea in their head to follow you back to your place so that they can pick up your entire supply.
What about the risk of entrapment? Is it possible that a library meet-up could serve as nothing other than a “these people have food” announcement? It’s most certainly a possibility.
Obviously, this idea is not without risk.
What are your thoughts, though? Is having a “let’s meet at the library in the event of a cyberattack/grid down event” plan a feasible idea? Is it foolish? Let us know your thoughts in the comments below!
About Aden
Aden Tate is a regular contributor to TheOrganicPrepper.com and TheFrugalite.com. Aden runs a micro-farm where he raises dairy goats, a pig, honeybees, meat chickens, laying chickens, tomatoes, mushrooms, and greens. Aden has two published books, The Faithful Prepper and Zombie Choices. You can find his podcast The Last American on Preppers’ Broadcasting Network.
Let’s add another reason that leaving faith and God out of our society hurts us. Maybe instead of meeting at the library with strangers that may contain predators, we meet with the people we see every week at church. We know their moral compasses aren’t broken even if their current basic needs are threatened, and may make them desperate.
Brilliant Sam! Meet at the church, I love it. I think nobody thought of it because most people don’t go to church. But I do, and I love that idea.
Overall that IS a more viable idea! HOWEVER don’t be fooled into thinking that ALL of the congregation are trust worthy….. although the percentages ARE better that they would be. Never let your guard down.
And beware of newcomers.
I’ve also been thinking a lot of God First thoughts, as well as basically totally deciding to follow Jesus, so I agree with what you’re saying on a personal level. People will go with their gut, I guess. Still working on loving my neighbour and living God’s will, but thank God God knows everything about me so maybe He’ll find okay stuff mixed in with all my you-know-what.
***I love this website***
Why are people waiting so long to get together, planning to meet up if the SHTF? I’m involved with a couple of groups that conduct regular meetings at regular locations now. It’s a no-brainer that if the grid went down, we’d simply gather at the regular meeting locations to connect. With all the crap that’s going on in our society for the last couple of years especially, people should already be meeting regularly for sanity at least.
Count yourself lucky to have been able to make those local real life connections. I for one would have no idea how to find local like-minded people.
I guess it may depend on where you live and what your political persuasion might be. Well, the politics is optional, but in our current situation, it could matter. I’ve found several ways to connect with people online, and turn those into real-life meetings (or join theirs). One group is Freedom Cells (https://freedomcells.org/), which is apolitical. Another is Make Americans Free Again (https://makeamericansfreeagain.com/) which has groups in a bunch of states. They’re supposed to be apolitical, perhaps officially, though there are a lot of conservatives in my state (Kentucky). For the record, I consider myself libertarian (small-l) and am registered to vote with no party affiliation.
Here’s a thought – find out where and when there are protests in your area and attend one. Then talk to people about groups they belong to.
politics is not really optional. it will matter if shtf because some people will feel entitled and demand that you help or support them, even family members. if this does happen you are going to have some hard decisions to make. a congregation is a group/family that is supposed to support each other, so that is a benefit, but there will be some, always is, that only wants to take and not help out. so even in a congregation you should pick like-minded persons to group with outside the church.
Try Meetup. Before things went crazy I met in person with two Meetup groups weekly. Now we meet online but there are some groups that meet in person. Everything from crafting to outdoor exercise to wine tasting. It’s helped me get to know people I would otherwise have never met in my community. Also, see if your city has an emergency response course and find out how/when to sign up for it. Those are just a couple of ways I have found that have helped me get to know people and the needs of my community. I also LOVE the church idea!
I’m in the same boat. Moved to a different freer state last summer. Been searching for a way to find like-minded locals.
I’m right there with you Colleen – have no idea how to go about it, and our town doesn’t HAVE a library to begin with…
The problem with our local church is we recently left because of anti-biblical teachings and our new church (after much searching) is about an hour away…
We’re very rural if you haven’t guessed, and I’m a bit of a homebody because no one seems to get together to knit or sew or just craft in general anymore… even before all the madness of the last couple years…
Same situation with us in Texas.
Will somebody please let me know HOW WILL ANYONE DRIVE TO A CHURCH OR A LIBRARY OR ANYWHERE WHEN THE GRID FAILS AND THERE IS NOTHING ELECTRICIAL WORKING????? Meeting sounds great in “normal ” times, just hop into your automobile, or into your truck and head on down, great idea. When the grid goes down (known as an EMP), how will this work? What is the new mode of transportation supposed to be if this happens? Most cars will NOT even start. Sensors, and all of these other modern components just simply will be fried and no good any more than you’ll be able to see tv, or use your computer, phone, coffee pot, microwave, heating pad, toaster, your electric stove. You frig will go off and ALL of your food will sour or go back or just rot!!! NO air conditioning or electric heat either…
SO, thinking outside the box then I need an answer! Maybe there is one, but it’s not yet come into my head. Thanks!!!
Hi ya Wandakate,
In all of these scenarios, I automatically assume no fuel or what fuel you have on hand is it in all my planning.
Then, if there just so happens to be fuel at the local gas station, the pumps are working and they are still taking cash/credit, then bonus!
Not going to speak for Aden, but as in my below post, we identified a local, central place for meetings/market for trade within walking distance.
Check out a map of your local area. Sometimes you can pick up on trends on how places were named from when towns were first founded. Could go back as into the 1800s, even in the cities. Usually named after road crossings (Hawkins Corner), prominent physical structures (Black Rock Point), or after someone important who founded the town.
What you will see is those older named places were small, rural, and each had their own markets. Some were larger than others. Some existed on major trade routes. Some started out small, then grew into major trading centers.
I do not know your particular situation. I would say look for a place where most in the immediate area (say an hour to two hour walking distance, figure in the time to walk back) that is central for most in your community. That is your meeting/market place.
If you want to go all bunker bunny and hole up in your place for a year or more, you have that choice.
Or, be pro-active, organize your community, be a part of it, and dont let things go all Mad Max. Note: Even in Mad Max, Beyond Thunderdome, they had laws/rules. IIRC, Matt in OK mentioned that within the prison system, street gangs, they have their own laws/rules. They have a chain of command.
Wandakate:
This article is taking the premise of the internet crashing, not the grid, but you do bring up a valid point worthy of it’s own article.
Walking. Bicycle. Horseback. Maybe even an old VW bug or other vintage non-electronic vehicle.
I don’t like the idea of meeting at the library per se because the library is a govt run operation. I dont want the govt to be aware of a group that’s gathering to help each other. I live in California and most of them are still closed down anyways. But I love the concept of meeting somewhere at 9am. It would be more likely that we would meet up at Daves Auto Garage because I know Dave and he’s got a big garage!
Good thinking but ANY church or head-start organization, yes the library etc. that claims to be 4-C is government controlled. Many churches are 4C and the pastor has been told he can NOT discuss certain topics with the congregation so beware of that!
Today’s libraries don’t have manual paper-based card catalogs as they had several decades ago. Virtually everything today’s libraries do is electrified — which would be shut down if a cyber attack (such as last summer’s Cyber Polygon simulation envisioned) took down the various power grids. There are three in the US. So with no power the lights, door locks, rest-room water supplies, electronic “card catalogs”, etc inoperable, their doors will be locked and any crowd that shows up in large numbers will find only parking space for a tiny fraction of those arrivals. The majority of vehicles loaded with goods to trade or sell would likely have to park a very long distance away … which would make hauling a heap of trade goods a manual process on foot. A mass of would-be customers would have the same access problem. Just imagine the absurdity of a Walmart trying to operate next door to any library. This would make a library one of the worst possible destinations.
Deciding on the best locations is going to vary from city to city. That decision should be made locally and absolutely not by some central planning enthusiast who could not possibly be capable of replacing local intelligence.
Finally … there are some estimates on how little time it takes for available fuel supplies to run out … in addition to not being able to replenish at all the gas stations with electric pumps suddenly not working. Then think through how little time it would take before driving to such central gathering places would be impossible because of no more fuel.
–Lewis
I use to have a part time toy business and go to craft shows, and county fairs. Hauling supplies, and setting up a booth, isn’t too difficult. Some places would allow driving up to the location where you could unload, then go park. Other places would be a hike with everything piled up on top of a couple of dollies. Just bring someone capable with you. Believe me, some events, even the small ones on a town common, can draw hundreds to thousands of people a day!
Lewis you are 100% correct. I work at a library. Everything works on electricity just like it does in our homes. I suppose you could meet outside in the parking lot. But, if we’re in the middle of a Cyberattack and we have no electricity, the library will be closed.
I like the idea of meeting at the churches.
Aden, where have you been hearing that people are going to meet at the library at 9am?
I agree Lewis. The library would immediately close down. I wonder if the purpose of the “library idea” is that every city has one, people meet there real quick, and then figure out what to do. But like Jim said, we should be doing this already.
I like Jim’s idea of getting your group together now if possible. Although we have a few folks we think we could trust, they are all at least a half hour drive away from us and like Colleen has mentioned, we are immediately surrounded by people who would not necessarily be trustworthy in the event of a cyberattack.
Our libraries have been mostly shut down for the past two years so they’re not likely to be available during a cyberattack.
So my plan is to observe who in my neighborhood seems to want to collaborate constructively with others in the event of a cyberattack, then to privately speak with them and gradually bring those who want to help each other together.
I also will get in touch with the members of my temple, but since it’s still closed due to COVID I would go to a few houses of those in that community and ask them to do the same. I know the people there will help each other.
It’s good to have a rally point. Have a plan to leave a message if that rally point is compromised. An example is to write with a sharpie a location on the lid of an electric panel. No one’s going to understand “Jim’s house” randomly written on the inside lid of an electric panel.
I think one of the biggest issues that people have today is that they are willfully ignorant and despise the thought of talking about anything like a nuke attack or cyber-attack or or that matter – anything negative. And to ask people to regularity meet to talk more about these things … well, in my area – Midwest – Wis – people seem to run from these things and hide.
I am not trying to be negative for I myself have prepped and know what’s happening in the world- Russia-Ukraine-US-NATO, NKorea, China-Taiwan, Israel-Iran, China-India, and the list goes on. IMO, an electrical grid cyber-attack is imminent. But being practical is realizing that people are scared to death of even their own shadows these days – you know, the plan-demic fallout – and think those that talk about these kind of attacks are “fear-mongerers” and to be avoided.
Good idea to meet at churches. Better idea is to be saved and meet at churches.
Obviously depending on the type of grid down situation, I feel like a meeting in my rural town of 2,000 would be fairly safe. Most of the residents are outside of town, but it’s also a horse community, so many folks would have alternative transportation. We live 9 miles from town, so it would be quite the walk for us, but we do have bicycles and a horse. Being followed home is always a possibility, but the only way to avoid that is to hide and not be part of the community at all.
We have a small farm, so are trying to figure out how we can actually support ourselves from it without all of our produce and animals “disappearing” during the night. We have a renewable barter source if we can keep it all from just being stolen…
I think you are missing something here.
If “everybody” is meeting up in town, then it is the perfect time for looters to invade all those homes, farms, etc. while you are gone. Even more so if this is a regular weekly event.
Not to mention the dangers of gathering in a group, at a common location, in dangerous times.
A great target for a deranged sniper or a thug squad with full auto weapons.
How do the looters get out to the farms if all the farmers have set up road blocks/felled trees of the big kind, blocked bridges?
You dont think every single farm outside of a metro area has not thought of that?
Kait:
Hope your family and neighbors have guns. You should face the reality that you will have to post a round the clock guard in a shtf situation.
Small town, yes, large city, no. I’m in one of the largest cities in New England, there is a library branch at the end of my street. If there’s a grid down situation, and word gets out that, that is where everyone is meeting, I would avoid that place like the plague! The libraries will be overrun by all the loons “looking for toilet paper”. We know who these people are. Meet up locations wont be a Kumbaya moment where everyone will come together and support one another. It will be targeted by gangs. There will be fighting, and there will be killings, over disagreements of what someone did or didn’t get. Someone will try to scam the wrong person, or someone will be off their medications and “have an episode”.
Unless there is some kind of an authority presence keeping the peace, you’re talking about a WORL situation. This isn’t a friendly jaunt over to the local flea/farmers market. Attendees will be targeted.
Too many so called preppers, living in a fantasy land, will be making themselves and their families victims.
The situation is completely different if all you’re talking about is the occasional power outage. A week here, a week there, is one thing, grid down, however, will be chaos.
Probably a bad idea.
Regardless of the cause of a cyberattack/ grid down scenario, certain groups will take advantage of the opportunity to loot, burn and destroy property.
So being out in that mess is ill advised.
After about 2 weeks of that, there will probably not be a library left standing.
By then the streets will resemble a war torn, 3rd world hell hole.
Some of our democrat run cities already almost resemble that condition, with out of control violence, shootings, car jacking and such.
Sounds like you are suggesting that it would be best to HUNKER DOWN at HOME!!! Ahhhh, now we’re talking. Being sure that one has what is needed and just remains put might be the best idea. Keep those guns loaded, the flashlights with batteries, plenty of candles, alternative heat and hope it don’t happen in the summertime when the air is not working or the ceiling fans or the electric fan either, and at a time when you can’t open up all of your windows…Going to town to a library in my opinion is just not doable at all, or to a church b/c many folks are NOT church friendly and actually dislike church folks. Some Christian persecution happens when these GOD haters encounter groups of Christians, so stay clear!!! Think ahead and be awake, alert, aware, and know the signs of the times. JESUS warned us to know what time it is and to watch the news and keep up with what is happening out there. Better safe than sorry!
I have never understood this weak mentality of just folding like a cheap suit and allowing for “certain groups will take advantage of the opportunity to loot, burn and destroy property.”
When I moved to SC, a co-worker been there for hurricane Hugo. The governor then said, “You loot, we shoot!”
And there was very little looting recorded.
With that mentality, there was very little gang activity.
Despite the grid there being down for 6 weeks or more in some places, not a whole lot of looting or gang activity.
During one hurricane where I opted to stay, I was at the local gun shop buying ammo and two PD were there. They told me, “make sure his body in half way into your home. All good.”
I smiled and said, “No worries officer. Will do.”
I agree…If the grid goes down…life doesn’t stop. I have been through multiple hurricanes, several snow events, and several tornados. In all the hurricanes the power went away for days and in some cases weeks. In the larger metros; looting occurred. In more rural areas…no looting. In fact neighbors actually helped each other. Imagine that.
People moving about. As long as people have fuel and two legs they are going to drive or walk around for whatever reason most don’t think about there being no fuel because Uncle Sugar will fix it. Cue the lines at gas stations and people standing out front of stores (like the big snow event last year). Dropping trees across roads would not stop anyone where I live; they would bust out chainsaws and cut them up for firewood or just drag them off the road. Communities are a lot tighter here. I live in a pretty poor county where the medium income is pretty low, but most people are not entirely poor in character.
Where I live people will defend what they have.
I know this is a broken record…major urban areas are what 9 meals away from possible anarchy? Of all the cities in TX that will turn into “no go areas” Houston will be the first to implode followed by Dallas and others.
If you live in a major metro…think about relocating to a county that has no more than 50,000 people and is not located on any major interstates and corridors. I live in TX for a reason, it is still reasonably “free.” The last 2 years were surely a litmus test for how your “elected” officials behaved. Did you find them wanting? I did…Yes..all politics are local. Start doing your due diligence!
The library would never be my first consideration as a “Rally Point” ( yes we have one.) it is in a city; too many choke points. I go to church and that is a Rally Point for me and mine, but we also have enough members who have acreage that is isolated and would be a far better location as a Rally Point. But, Aden you have given me ideas…now I will write them up…going to use a mapping programs and identify centralized locations where members of my church live and identify centralized Rally Points – safe havens. These sites already have water at least; just have to purify it.
We have a good neighborhood watch meeting monthly. I wouldn’t want to meet monthly or any time after grid went down, because of gangs in the area may use it to attack us or empty homes. It would be better, if cell phones are down ( most likely) for two members to walk from home to home, while other family members stayed at these people walking homes. Gather information, then drop off hand written copies of information gathered. I have been trying to convince neighbors of starting an emergency plan but not much support yet.
The beauty in this idea is that all those who read prepper ideas online could be in on the idea. Those neighbors who you never met and had no idea they were ‘like minded’ may have also read this and you would meet like minded folks at the time when you needed them.
It’s like Selco’s circles.. This isn’t your inner circle that you are meeting and discussing with already – this is a way to grow your next level circle- at the exact moment you need them.
Also it could be advertised around a neighborhood – just saying “News exchange, and trading post” meet at the library parking lot 10am. Even after The Event people are going to go around their neighborhood checking things out- flyers saying ‘news exchange and trading post’ would draw people in. The like minded could meet first and bring the community to a news share after. Like the trading post in the show Jericho. This thing would exist in time anyway- this is just a great way to have it planned of action in advance.
The wife, some of the neighbors and I have had this very discussion on more than one occasion.
We dont have a library, but the townhall is centrally located, and within walking distance for most of us. Good sized parking lot with an adjacent field.
While discussing it, we came to the conclusion that a centralized meeting place or open air market might become rather than a once a week thing, a daily event. People come for trade, barter, talk, socialize (as we have seen the mass mental health issues that prolonged isolation leads to from the COVID lockdowns) exchange of information.
We also discussed normalizing open carry. Some one gets a dumb idea, they are surrounded.
Our town has a town council. However, some of them live more than a few miles away. What was once a quick 10 minute drive, keeping with Aden grid down, fuel limited or gone situation, is now a all day walk. And some of them are not in the physical condition for even that.
So, we might have to have new elections. Perhaps even elect a town sheriff, someone who is LEO, prior-LEO or retired LEO (Matt in OK, if you were in my town/community, might force you out of retirement 😉 ) Contrary to popular belief, I am not qualified nor would even think of holding such a position.
May have to formalize a local emergency response team that is every thing from the fire brigade, to a militia.
I’ll send Arizona to help ya out ????
Matt in OK,
What did I ever do to offend you??? 😉
What? You don’t want his K-9 unit of military controlled roving packs of mutant dog wolf lizards to help you? Pshh
I mean that kinda sounds like a cool way to die as opposed to getting tetanus while slowly starving wearing tattered clothes and not bathing for months.
One more thought, for small neighborhoods without a library in walking/bike distance. Maybe a school parking lot is available.
That’s what’s hard. The city has library – the rural does not. The small town has many schools in town- the city has big schools far apart. But since a school has a library- i feel like that is a small town equivalent.
Good afternoon Mama,
I think the library was a suggestion.
What centrally located place within reasonable walking distance to you and most of your neighbors?
A school?
Post office?
A burnt out Wally-world parking lot?
Even a open field?
1st Marine.
Respect-to your point. If you are staying in your community that’s true..
..but in theory – consider the world where hundreds of like minded folks are bugging out or on the move.. What if you knew that whatever town you went through- the library at 9am on Sat would be a place to find your people.
That’s the point I see. If you are staying put you can set up whatever new community you want.. but what if everyone in the prepper world knew that a library in every city on Sat at 9am would be a place to check out. Then as you move from area to area you have an idea of how to navigate.. That’s the part I like of it being uniform.
What if I planned to stay home- but was traveling and found myself in a totally strange city during the moment of The Event.. you can bet I would bother to scope out the library on Saturday at 9am.!
Left a respectable reply but I don’t see it published here. It’s too bad that you filter out comments that don’t fit your agenda. My comment was truthful but apparently you disagreed. So sad.
I thought this site was better than that.
I like your thoughts here. I will address your reference to the hack on the drinking water system here in Florida. Firstly I am a Florida licensed drinking water operator. This hack happened not far from my area. An on duty operator noticed the hack while monitoring the system therefore shutting down the attack before any dangerous level of chemicals were introduced into the system. If the operator on duty had not been paying attention it could have had serious results. The system I operate is not connected to the internet in any way. It is an old school mechanical system of disinfectant introduction. And most smaller water systems operate in this manner. It’s only large municipal water systems that are tied to a computer system making them vulnerable to cyber attack. In Florida we are, for the most part, very vigilant in regards to the safety of our drinking water systems.
Would you have the fuel required to get to the library?
Do you own a bicycle? Maybe a set of panners or a bicycle trailer to haul stuff?
Unless your rich and driving an armored limo no auto has bullet resistant benefits.
Plus, bicycles can go anywhere you can walk thus bypassing probable roadblocks.
Gas stations cannot work without the grid. So if you can start your car, you should load it up with 4 locals, max one per house to represent you and go to the church/library/community center/local watering hole. Then you report back the agreements and news. The community meetings send representatives, four in one car, to other community meetings. This would allow a lot of news to travel.
The positives of the trade should outweigh the dangers.
Bums asking for freebies should be told “We could help YOU, but we can’t help the whole state. Therefore we die if we give anything out for nothing. If you played the grasshopper all Summer, okay, what DO you have to offer now?” A sound body can do a lot of work and there will be great need for that. And some have useful knowledge.
I am looking for a local church normal and sane enuf to have fellowship lunch after the service. That is a vital part of the service and is mentioned in Acts of the Apostles as a normal part of the service.
A community radio plan has been in use for years and works well when it’s applied. No fuel required, as long as you can keep a radio running. The advantages are high (no mask required 😉 and begins with no-license required radios for > local comms <.
https://amrron.com/communications-resources/ch3-project/
There are some definite pros to the idea but if you evaluate the basic premise a couple of things leap out:
1) grid down means no fuel, food, medicine or communication. The result is armed thugs stealing anything they want. This will start within a few days of the event and result intense of millions of deaths in the first year. The threat to your family and supplies will be existential.
2) The threat is larger than simply being followed home. If you go to the library you either divide your forces or take them all with you and leave your supplies undefended.
3) The premise to go there is that nobody has radios. Maybe there is a clue in there somewhere… Getting radio enabled and setting up communications plans now is a critical path item to survive a grid down event. More important than getting news will be coordinating defense.
4) learn how to obtain and use Faraday cages for some of your radio gear in case of CME or EMP
This is another example of poor planning.
1) Why is it those who cannot think outside of the box automatically assume that armed thugs/gangs will be able to do what they want, when they want? Those who cannot think outside of the box never consider that a community will do what it takes to but those thugs/gangs down? Like those of us, prior military, LEOs, would never lift a finger to defend us and ours?
2) If my community establishes a daily market, and economics drives the market, then no one is going without.
Not only that, if there is no fuel, my vehicles are parked, how does anyone know if my home is undefended? As it stands now, I have two rifles within reach for just varmints alone of the 4 legged kind. SHTF, it is a given I am armed at all times. Around here, assume that everyone has a deer rifle, 12ga, and at least a .22LR. Likely more. So that gang of thugs might attack my senior citizens as a soft target, but then very quickly find themselves having to defend themselves from the local militia of 30 to 50 members.
3) Meh. I know of two community members who have HAM radios. Honestly, a whistle might be better emergency comms than a battery dependent radio.
4) Dependency on technology is a weak link in the chain.
Think outside of the box.
Good quality whistles and a simple laminated card with agreed whistle codes is something my MAG already uses.
Was put to the test recently when a pair of firewood thieves started working our area.
They seemed less than happy to be surrounded by an unknown number of whistle blowers when they were trying to steal from a wheelchair vet of ours. They returned that firewood and MORE before we allowed them to flee.
We had enough firepower to stop any threat to our veteran but felt their stacking the firewood under that vet’s direction enough education for them.
First, thanks for your service. Secondly, some of us study history including recent history. Even in short term catastrophes it is common to experience mass looting, rape and murder. IN a grid down situation lasting months even good people will start to rob and loot to feed their families.
Katrina and its aftermath is a good example. People were even raped and murdered in the government run relief shelter. After hurricane Dorian in Abaco looters broke into the gun safe in the local hardware store. They then went house to house raping and killing the owners, consuming their supplies and moving to the next place when the supplies ran out. I was there in a relief capacity immediately after the storm and spoke to survivors personally.
In the Corps you used radios right? Did you ever go on a patrol without comms? There is a reason they do that…
Going armed and mutual assistance groups are a no brainer. Hell I live in Texas. We’re practically all armed all of the time. Having comms adds to the effectiveness of the group and improves intelligence gathering exponentially. Even a couple of $40 Baofeng hand held or MURS radios would be a big improvement over a whistle or smoke signals. CB radios, VHF there are many lowww cost option. A couple hundred bucks worth of solar panels and batteries will keep them running indefinitely.
Having thousands of dollars worth of weapons and ammo and not spending a couple of hundred on communications tools is poor planning in my view. Then people need to invest some time in learning to use them before SHTF. To not do so is the equivalent of buying a gun and never learning to shoot it until you need it.
Having radios distributed between your militia members will make you much more responsive and effective when you get there. If the radios fail you can always blow your whistle.
Something else to worry about . . .
There are a lot of people on the streets today who would be institutionalized were it not for the medications they’re taking. And others who shouldn’t even be on medication (but who are due to over-zealous parents and profit-minded MD’s).
We can likely expect some irrational behavior when the meds run out . . . IN ADDITION to any larcenous gangs in the neighborhood. I suspect that ordinary thieves will be rational enough to slow down for an ugly dog and a 12-gauge. Not so the gibbering maniac who ran out of medication. It could be your neighbor’s kid, ya know?
Food for thought.
Just read through all the comments here and the responses are as varied as the possibilities that could present themselves.
I agree that communication at the local level is critical. Meeting at a predesignated time has its merits as long as your family unit has at least one person who can stay back and mind the home/castle. preferably two go out and two stay home if possible.
The time to develop community level awareness is now, not after an event. Get out and meet your neighbors at church, school, the library while it is up and running and discuss how to exchange information post-event. I have ham radio gear and have made arrangements with a number of friends to meet on air at certain times and on certain frequencies should it be needed.
Contrary to popular belief, an EMP attack does not mean nothing electrical will work. Everything that might be affected by an EMP will have between 1% and 100% chance of survival. All depends on the nature of the source, the location, the power level, the location of your items, etc.
Met now, not later. Discuss options now, not later. Stay safe and prepare accordingly.
The only real way to find out what is going in the event of a cyber attack on the grid, on is HF Ham Radio. A nation wide HF Net. There is no infrastructure needed. All that is needed is a 12 volt battery, HF Radio and a wire antenna.
Regardless, In a big event, Hams will be on their radio exchanging information about what is happening. With a cheap Shortwave radio and a wire antenna up in a tree, you will hear a lot about what is going on.
As for local operations, buy a bunch of UGH Bafoengs and hand them out to your friends before the event. Better yet, everyone buy some GMRS radios, HT and Mobile and a antenna on your house, you will get out 20 to 30 miles. Get your GMRS license, no test needed.
Everyone can get on the radio from their home instead of going to the library.
You can buy a dozen walkie talkies at a time from amazon. A weekly rotation of channel and a quick click code is all you need. Walkies are an easy charge even on a solar panel. Those small row boats, canoe, etc. can be converted with some wheels (cheap and easy if you prepare before hand), a heavy duty drop cloth and a pipe/branch converts the whole thing for wind travel. Last summer all the kids in the neighborhood made them, derby car-ish, some are really quick and a few kids found a kit on the internet that worked well. Like sailing you need to practice. There are bikes, but they can be expensive if you are doing tricycles or carts to move stuff.
The local elementary school is closer to everyone out here, only a few miles away. The closest library is about 16 miles away from our house. Churches are closer to everyone too.
Man this is a literal wound up uptight crowd. Library doesn’t have to mean library.
Breathe
Substitute “centrally located and defendable location with multiple egress and ingress” for “library.” Perhaps he used “library” vice a more “militaristic” lingo term. After all we don’t want people to think we are a bunch of crazy “preppers.”
China and Russia have had a cyber armistice in place for quite a long time. They both have been collaborating, and harvesting and probing US infrastructure for decades. Those of us actively working in the cyber world have been watching Russia very closely these past few months – they have some extremely good offensive technology in cyberspace. The US power grid is our achilles heel. Conventional methods could do a lot of damage. China accidentally brought down a section of the Florida state power grid some years back when they were doing recon, and someone on their team accidentally triggered an electronic method by mistake. An EMP is a real possibility, and could easily be done using a commercial cargo container……..that would be a total surprise to most.
Lots of good suggestions have been made in the postings so far. Build your people networks now. Find communication methods as have been suggested. Our family makes it a point to meet as many new people in our neighborhood and community each week, and over time, we have come to know who we can count on in a natural disaster aftermath, or other similar situation. We also have built a network so we know who has what skills.
See you in the pub!! Seriously you should already have a knowledge of WHO is useful and who is a waste of a bad skin. You will need Doctors/ first aiders etc, including Dentists and a Pharmacist , Mechanics, Plumbers, Gas fitters . Form a “posse ” to oversee and protect the traders. Who farms what, and how.Who stores salt? Get your own group together first, they probably don’t know of each other yet, make a list and sort it. if everyone turns up at the same time there will be 2 opinions per person and most won’t have a clue. Meet at the supermarket, it has the space to park and everyone knpws where it is.
I like the idea of “meet here in case of..” plan. I thought on this and observed my Amish neighbors over the years. Every Sunday services are at a different home. There’s a lot of reasons for this (according to their anabaptist faith). After worship more than just a little news is passed around, children play and get into trouble, business is discussed and planned, and food is shared.
The Amish telegraph works. Fast. And it’s reliable. It works off hoof, foot and pedals rain or shine, through fog, wind, snow or hail. It’ll work for the rest of us with a small amount of planning, common community goals and discipline. It doesn’t matter where the meeting is held, just as long as a first meeting is held. After that things like the location of the meeting become last order of business. There’ll be more important matters on the agenda to comb out.
If a cyber attack takes out communications, would it also take out the electrical grid? Computers that let your car run? Gas station pumps and cash registers? Then how does one get to the library or church?
Checked my library for prepping books. It had one. I have put money into building my own library, including buying an old encyclopedia set, old school books and even a chalk board and chalk to be able to teach my grandchildren.
Whoa. Too many of you are missing the point. If the situation arises where we need a meet up then it would be universally understood to meet at the library on the first couple of Saturdays. From there, you can break off and decide alternative locations depending on who you meet, what the emergency is, local needs etc.
In our town the library is very small but fairly easy walking distance to the town hall, the middle and high school.
If your issue is “how can I get there?” then you have a different issue, possibly a hole in your preps you had better address.
No one answer fits every person, family or community but it’s a great place to start.
Ps- my 82 year old neighbor plans on riding his ancient lawn tractor for as long as his diesel lasts. Slow but she’ll get you there eventually.
I think the idea of having a pre-arranged location for your group to meet within a predetermined period of time after a disaster is a good one. Having your group meet at a very public location isn’t.
Most libraries are in the city center, often clustered with other municipal buildings, so you need to be aware that there are likely to be lots of other people around, many of whom may be mentally unhinged by a major event. So many people are glued to their smartphones all day and night, being without them may give them a type of withdrawal. ( Not so far-fetched, btw. A study a few years ago shows that’s exactly what happens.)
In the interest of your personal safety as well as other members of your group, I would suggest an alternate site a bit less busy, maybe someone’s house. I would further suggest keeping group meetings small – under ten people, maybe. Police will be on high alert, and may have been ordered to break up meetings of more than a certain number for “security reasons”.
Maybe, if your group is big enough, divide it geographically and have a representative act as an area organizer and liason with the rest of the group. Like the “cells” in the French Resistance. This also prevents all of the members of your group being in the same place at the same time if there is trouble.
I personally would never have anything to trade, however I might know where to get something that people may want should they have something that I or my family members/crew may need. Barter in a SHTF situation is at the very least extremely dangerous. Creating a “dead drop” for a specific trade would be my go to methodology, and never using the same place twice.
Traveling to and from a trade location would be dangerous and likely bring about the highway men of times past. If I needed anything I would go there empty handed but if I found what I was looking for I would arrange a trade at a different time and place to ensure the safety of the transaction as well as the people involved.
Why wait? I’m going to start a community meeting at my local library at 9am every Saturday. That way when SHTF we’ll already have a working group in place.
Traveling to and from a trade location would be dangerous for me as well: I’m a 60 yo single female living in a city with 502,522 other people, so leaving home or returning there with items other people might want/need is nót a good idea!
I would stay home and just keep my fingers crossed that an eventual grid-down situation doesn’t outlast my supplies (> 1 year)!
On the other hand: The Netherlands is a very small country, so I suspect that help from neighboring countries would not take weeks to arrive
Since the internet is often ‘down’ in our community (without a cyber-attack), along with power outages, it might take our community a while to determine there was anything actually wrong. Which is why we have a Ham Radio group already established for disaster preparedness. In rural areas, what usually happens is that neighbors initially check with neighbors to see if anyone knows what is happening, and when “x” might be fixed. Checking with Neighbors is step One. Most small rural communities already have some sort of regular gathering place where locals go to exchange info and swap gossip, which would be a next step in getting information. It might be the Church, or the Library, the Fire Station, or gas station/convenience store. Cities do not have this commonality of already identified meeting places. And if I lived in a city, a cyber-attack of major proportions would be a ‘leave town, go to my family gathering spot’ trigger event. If the cyber-event evolved into a grid-down scenario, we would enact our grid-down plans. I suggest more people get their Ham license or join a GMRS radio group and keep a couple of handheld radios and batteries in a faraday cage. Radio is likely to be the communications used to inform people. Radio should be part of your communications plan as many natural disasters disrupt telecommunications. Just my opinion.
I know this thread is a bit old, and I might have missed this tidbit in the original discussion…..the term ‘library’ doesn’t have to literally mean you meet at a library. It could be an agreed upon location, but the term ‘library’ can be used generically because it doesn’t give out any specifics that could make you vulnerable if you all go to a real library and people who want to prey on you show up to see what they can take from you. It could be the antique tractor that’s been sitting in farmer John’s field for 20 years, or some other building or location that doesn’t have to be as obvious as you might think. It all depends on your general location and what makes sense and is the easiest for those who will be getting together to help out when the time comes.
Also, in reference to the comments about the grid and the Internet going down – yes, they will both go down, including some things tied to satellites. I have worked in the cyber field since before the term cyber was even used. I regularly attend meetings where information is shared on many topics. Our power grid, supply chain, and telecom infrastructure remain highly vulnerable – especially power. Despite the annual reports Daisy has consistently mentioned in her postings that have been presented to Congress over and over and over for years, nothing has really been done to harden the grid – with the exception of what some of the utilities themselves might be doing (and some of them are doing things because the Fed Gov’t is doing nothing). One topic mentioned and discussed consistently is the public perception that Fed agencies or the military will swoop in to the rescue and ‘fix’ the ‘broken’ grid or provide termporary replacement capability. That is NOT going to happen. Yes, there may be some pockets of this happening, but it will not be anywhere close to a large scale. Our adversaries have been mapping our weaknesses for decades, and they have been ‘planting’ things to be activated at the ‘right’ time. China’s goal is to take over the US without firing a shot. Our military relies 100% on our commercial grid and supply chain. Without those functions in operation, it will only take a few weeks for our nation to be overrun due to all the chaos.
Lots of good ideas have been suggested in the original article and the various postings. I strongly urge everyone to revisit this and address any gaps or weaknesses you know about, and redouble your preps now. Think Venezuela. It happened there in a matter of hours. It will be the same here, and millions of Americans will be standing around with their jaws open.