By Daisy Luther
A man in Texas who is thought to be infected with Ebola may be taken into custody against his will. Is this the beginning of medical martial law, or is this a common sense practice to prevent the spread of a deadly disease?
Thus far, due to medical privacy laws, the man is unnamed.
Here’s an excerpt from yesterday’s Courthouse News Service:
Texas wants a second patient “reasonably suspected of being infected” with Ebola put into protective custody in Dallas.
Dr. David L. Lakey, commissioner of the Texas Department of State Health Services, filed a motion for a temporary order of protective custody Monday in Dallas County Court. The unidentified patient, sued as “M.W.L.,” is “reasonably suspected of being infected with a communicable disease (Ebola) that presents an immediate threat to public health,” the 4-page motion states.
“Further, movant has determined that proposed patient is a threat to himself or others if not immediately restrained. Further, sources charged with monitoring the proposed patient M.W.L. have observed the proposed patient failing or refusing to follow the written order of the Texas Department of State Health Services by leaving the premises of a medical facility contrary to medical directives, without permission and surreptitiously.”
Lakey claims that the proposed patient “meets the criteria authorized by the court” to issue such an order. “The sworn representations of the applicant, who is a credible person, state that the proposed patient is reasonably suspected of being infected with the communicable disease, Ebola, that presents a threat to public health; has failed or refused to follow the written or verbal orders of the Commissioner; and presents a substantial risk of harm to himself or others if no immediately restrained,” according to the motion, filed Monday at 2 p.m.
Lakey wants the patient kept under constant guard at Parkland Hospital, Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital Dallas or any other appropriate facility. (source)
So here’s the conundrum.
I’m all about liberty. I’m a hardcore libertarian who believes that the state should not have authority over my day-to-day activities.
But…
Do we really want people with a gruesome, deadly, infectious disease running around willy-nilly; touching things; potentially vomiting, coughing, sneezing, and bleeding out of assorted orifices; and contaminating sundry doorknobs, public transit, and gathering places? I’m not saying that this M.W.L. fellow has any intention of deliberately making people sick, but still. Is this actually a horrible thing?
I know the headlines are going to be all over the place, calling this “medical martial law”. It’s inevitable, because we are all very protective our our personal liberties.
But…how is it that some of the people who are the most up in arms about illegal immigrants being potential sources of disease, and about US Customs’ complete disregard of health protocols at international airports are the same people who are screaming about this being unacceptable?
You can’t have it both ways.
The Ebola situation in the US has been handled HORRIBLY thus far. As my friends at Truthstream Media said, it’s like a badly written horror film. You just want to grab those in charge and shake some sense into them. “No! Don’t go into that dark forest to investigate the noise. RUN!!!!”
Is it really unreasonable to insist that those exposed to Ebola remain at home? Personally, I can’t understand why someone who might be ill with Ebola would want to risk contributing to the start of a horrible pandemic, but for those who don’t take personal responsibility for that sort of thing, is it really a bad thing for them to chill out at home until they’re clear?
Here’s where the slippery slope part comes in.
- I don’t want to be forcibly vaccinated.
- I don’t want to be thrown into a FEMA camp with a bunch of sick people because I’m suspected of being sick.
- I don’t want to be medicated against my will.
But I also would not leave my house if I was ill with what “might” be Ebola. I would take the responsibility of isolating myself so that I didn’t make others sick. Or alternatively, I’d cover up and go to the hospital in order to be isolated. Heck, if I even think it’s in my city, I’ll lock down preventatively.
This may make me none-too-popular, but I just can’t think it’s okay for those who are showing symptoms of Ebola to be allowed to wander around the city. We expect officials to perform medical checks and quarantine people at the border. We expect hospitals to immediately admit people who could be ill and we chastise them for doing stupid stuff …you know, like sending away Thomas Duncan. Keeping people who are potentially ill and contagious isolated IS NOT a bad thing. Forcing them to undergo medical treatment or exposing them to other sick people IS a bad thing.
Melissa Melton of the Daily Sheeple agrees that preventative actions should be taken to contain a potential pandemic outbreak:
How about this? How about if someone has even been in those countries, they have to wait 21 days before coming here in a preventative quarantine? I’m certainly not for martial law or taking away anyone’s rights, but at this point if they show up here with Ebola, the CDC will quarantine them and take away their rights anyway, as we are now seeing with Duncan’s family members in Dallas who are on a 21-day control order that forces them to stay inside and make themselves available for any and all medical tests public health officials deem necessary on demand, or they will face criminal charges.
So, either way, rights are not being upheld. Might as well not put a bunch of other people in mortal danger while we are already on the slip ‘n slide straight to global pandemic land.
So how can we also criticize them for isolating someone who might potentially spread the disease to thousands? I’m not advocating forcible medical treatment, but I don’t think it’s wrong to quarantine a person showing all of the signs of a deadly illness. This is not “medical martial law”. It’s common sense. Who can honestly say it’s okay for people to go around spreading a horrific bloody plague? When people refuse to act like responsible human beings and put others in harm’s way, it ceases to become an issue of personal liberty and turns into an issue of potential criminal negligence.
I know opinions will vary greatly on this. So…weigh in. Should a person showing the signs of Ebola be allowed to go on their merry way, potentially infecting others? Should they be required to stay home under mandatory quarantine? Where do we draw the line?
Resources:
Updated: Prepping for an Ebola Lockdown
The Prepper’s Blueprint: The Step-By-Step Guide To Help You Through Any Disaster
The Pantry Primer: How to Build a One Year Food Supply in Three Months
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Executive Order 13295 as authored by GW Bush and ammended by Barack Hussein Obama on July 31 of THIS YEAR to include fever. What a coincidence! Read it and weep sheeple:
http://www.cdc.gov/sars/quarantine/exec-2004-04-03.html
section 1, sub-section (a) clearly states Ebola, and that appears to be from the original exec order issued in 2003 (sub-section (b) was the one altered in July to include all SARS-like diseases). So exactly how long has Ebola been around?
According to the Book Of Knowledge:
The first recorded outbreak of EVD occurred in Southern Sudan in June 1976. A second outbreak soon followed in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (then Zaire).[111] Virus isolated from both outbreaks was named “Ebola virus” after the Ebola River, located near the Zaire outbreak.[112] Reports conflict about who initially coined the name: either Karl Johnson of the American CDC team[113] or Belgian researchers.[114] Although it was assumed that the two outbreaks were connected, scientists later realized that they were caused by distinct species of filoviruses, Sudan virus and Ebola virus.
You said;
“Should a person showing the signs of Ebola be allowed to go on their merry way, potentially infecting others? Should they be required to stay home under mandatory quarantine? Where do we draw the line?”
-And of course the answer is no, people showing signs of the disease as well as those who have been in contact with others who show signs of having the disease should be quarantined. As well, people who have been to countries where the disease exists should be quarantined upon arrival at a U.S. airport. It is, as you have said, merely common sense. Having said that however, there will be those who will violate that protocol whether due to denial of reality, selfish interests, a low IQ, or simply a rebellious attitude with regard to authority. There
ah, I seem to have hit the “enter” button by accident before finishing my post, my apologies.
To continue where I left off;
There WILL BE (caps for emphasis, not for “shouting”) people who will not cooperate. The government knows this as this is where Rahm Emmanuel’s “never let a good crisis go to waste” may come in. As you said;
“Who can honestly say it’s okay for people to go around spreading a horrific bloody plague? When people refuse to act like responsible human beings and put others in harm’s way, it ceases to become an issue of personal liberty and turns into an issue of potential criminal negligence.”
– Exactly, and this is where “medical martial law” most likely will be used to acclimate the populace to the idea of restricted travel within the country, ala the old Soviet Union. There are those within the government who would love to impose this restriction upon the populace. Our country has, after all become a police state since 911 and this would be the next logical step for a totalitarian government in the making, which the USA seems to have become. While I certainly do not want to see that happen, I also do not want to see people with Ebola spreading it to healthy people.
Yes, I know people will label my thoughts on this as paranoid “conspiracy theory”, but I just do not trust the “authorities” any longer. I DO however trust them to take advantage of this situation in whatever manner that it may increase their power over the people.
Exactly! “Never let a crisis go to waste,” (And if there is no convenient crisis that is available when you need it- then CREATE one! (Gotta run- ‘Dancing with the stars’ is coming on.
Bwahahahaha
As long as this administration keeps the border open and even inviting to people with Ebola and other diseases, this is all a moot point. Even limited martial law will be chasing brush fires until one gets out of hand then that will be all she wrote. Closing the border to the sick and punishing airlines that violate the ban plus a limited medical martial law could prevent a major epidemic. Otherwise it is all but inevitable.
I have no problem voluntarily quarantining myself, if thought to have this, to protect others, for really, if we get right down to it, as Daisy says, we must be responsible for ourselves, if you were sick, would you kiss your kids? your husband? knowing they could get sick? Not me, not any decent person would, we must also be on the watch for those sick ass people, who are sick, and would purposely infect others, its been going on for a long time folks, disgruntled employees, going back to the job, poisoning, killing, some cases in the past include spitting into food, urinating, you name it.. sad, but we must all be aware, we DO have people in our country, who mean us harm. Myself, I get all the e mails from the CDC and FDA, and its surprising how many foods area recalled, and the TYPE of foods that are contaminated. having many family member in LEO, I hear a lot, and its IS a lot to know.
Lastly, I must remember to thank people like Daisy, who have their eyes wide open. thanks friend. I am attaching a few lines, so all of you have a number to call, if you see suspicious activity, REPORT it! not ur neighbor smoking weed, that’s no one business, but if you see someone pouring liquids in a river, or lake, take his her picture, do your part. Please, we are the ones, in the end, who can make a difference. No FEAR, just common sense right?
The FBI needs your help identifying the individuals in this video as well as anyone traveling abroad to join terrorist organizations. Please send tips to http://www.fbi.gov/ISILtips or call 1-800-CALL-FBI (1-800-225-5324) with information. This is the NEW terrorist tip line, each one of us, is responsible, to help, against a threat that may hurt our kids, or our nation, they put this number out there, lets use it, see if they do their job, they will, you don’t hear when they arrest many, but I assure you, many agencies are hunting these murders down. safety, PEACE, security, feeling safe in your area, is what counts, now, we have the net, its NOT being a rat, to report someone who may try to kill innocents, in the military, we had a saying long ago, NO KIDS, NO WOMEN, NO INOCENTS.
Common sense STILL is king, in the USA, we must all watch, don’t get paranoid, but watch, and be part of the solution. Its already to the point, as my wife went to san fran last week, where MANY are wearing medical breathing masks, during flights, almost a MUST now. Sad, but true.
THe DHS needs you to see something, say something….you are following their directions to a T.
I don’t want anyone to get sick; I don’t agree with infected people wandering around but I don’t want martial law, or neighbors who think they see somebody doing something they don’t like. Your perception of someone maybe be just that, your perception, not the real thing. Are you sure you saw a feverish man peeing in the water supply? Or did you just see two lovers as you drove by? Know what you are accusing people of and have real proof before you start squawking and ruining people’s lives because of your panic. The president has authorized DHS to institute martial law, but they so far have had no reason to. Because of your panic, you are giving them permission to take away your freedom, and thus you cause them to take away our freedom also.
So, we’re going to trust the government to forcibly quarantine ONLY those people who might be sick? You know the government. Give them power and they’ll abuse it, and oh what a slick way remove people who trouble them in some manner. Sorry, sir or madam. A neighbor said you were seen coughing on your front porch whilst retrieving your morning paper. Away you go.
This would be a very good time to re-read The Crucible, I think. Or Masque of the Red Death.
Let me see if I have this right: does no one else suspect, or in fact know, that the “government” itself created the crisis (and this strain of the virus itself)? And is letting it play out according to script? (Doing pretty much the opposite of what it should do were it concerned to prevent the crisis, a la the movies where the government is always “incompetent” and downplays the dangers until it’s too late.)
Does everyone still ascribe to the “incompetent government” belief? Can anyone see through to the “psy op” and “biowarfare” nature of this?
And Maineuh above is exactly right. Except I would say that instead of “give them power and they’ll abuse it,” it’s more that “giving them power” is the abuse itself, and it’s self-inflicted.
Of course the quarantining will be opportunistic to remove enemies, and god knows what else they have in mind, no doubt to include passing more draconian freedom-quashing regulations and, as George mentioned above, to acclimate the populace toward generally a more stressful world lurking with outsized dangers that only “government” can protect you from.
It really does seem to be a matter of slowly cranking the heat up, getting us accustomed to liberties that erode by the day. If they start locking people up, a good bulk of the population will say, ‘oh, goody! The government is doing something to protect us!’ When many of us strongly suspect that this is exactly why ebola is here in the first place. The frog in the pot analogy is overused, but damn if it isn’t an apt one. Getting groped at the airports is a matter of routine now. It’s old hat. And if the present situation keeps rolling, seeing our friends and neighbors carted off by men in haz mat suits will likewise become commonplace. Just the idea that you can imagine such a thing is horrifying. Dark times indeed.
Oh this is a very slippery slope. Taking measures to prevent the spread of ebola is good. Taking into custody on suspicion of infection though is very totalitarian. My first though it the gov is wrong and violating his rights. Keeping this contained though is important. I’m very conflicted by this. Thanks for sharing.
Lets start from the beginning. They want to declare martial law; globally, but especially HERE. Western Africa, where this “ebola” epidemic is, is in ‘meningitis alley’. They vaccinated 100 million people there for that. Cases of the vaccine sat out for 4 days in over 100 degree heat. That stuff is supposed to be refrigerated. The early reports and fotos don’t look like ebola symptoms. They look like meningitis or some new thing. The guy who invented the Ebola test says it isn’t very trustworthy. So, you can bet these poor doctors and workers have been given that vaccine. What about the 3 or 4 thousand troops they have sent over there? You can bet they have been injected with that poison. Now they are testing the waters for martial law and you have fallen for it. They don’t need a REAL pandemic. All they need is to lie to us and have us goose step to the camps.
Lots of great points here! I too, am very conflicted about this.
For the sake of discussion, let’s suspend the disbelief that Ebola is real. Let’s assume it is real and it’s here. I’m not talking about the one diagnosed case in the country right now. I’m talking about a scenario like in Liberia, where thousands are infected.
I believe that those of us here are responsible people. If we were ill, we’d do the right thing and try to avoid making others ill.
Please note that I said I found a quarantine of sick people to be acceptable in specific situations. I’m not advocating putting people in camps, forcibly vaccinating them, or medicating them against their wishes.
For those of you who do not believe that mandatory quarantines are acceptable, what do you feel is the answer? We can all say how something is “wrong” but if you believe that something is wrong, you must have an alternative belief of what is “right”?
Doesn’t look like volunteer quarantine is working in Africa. Some people are just too ignorant or self centered. Sorry but a pandemic is a game changer – we have to accept different rules to keep people from dying on a truly enormous scale. I’m talking forced quarantine at home here, not camps or forced vaccinations. What good is the retention your liberties if it means your family and friends will be dying?
We need to get off our collective asses and demand that the borders are sealed and protected. Contact your representatives!
I’ve been reading about this. Supposedly, this person is a homeless man who rode in the ambulance after Duncan and before they knew he had Ebola.
What I’ve read said they had the man, but he escaped. Now they have him again.
So, IF this is true, he doesn’t have a “home” to quarantine himself in, and he obviously doesn’t have the mental capacity to understand that he can’t wander all over if he is sick.
He may or may not have Ebola, but if he rode in that ambulance, I would say he has a good chance of being infected.
I agree this is a slippery slope, but I do have to admit that this also could be the result of the health officials doing some right in this mess.
It also means that tracking the homeless man’s contacts will be a logistical nightmare.
We are in the throws of a Problem-Reaction-Solution propaganda campaign. Some may call it mind control. It is being used to change laws/and or attitudes to the population who would not accept these changes in another circumstance. Sound familiar? Not only have we experienced this many times, it goes back to Roman times as well.
I do not feel this topic should be discussed for the following reasons:
1. To try to come up with a solution, or even taking a position, is to do exactly what those who have plans, want to occur. It will lead to more control and tyranny. I refuse.
2. Medical protocol has been ignored. It is a stand down. Few are talking about this, but it is a key point! If there is no need, then we are talking about a PsyOp.
3. Even if this is an incorrect assessment, there is little anyone can really do about it. Buying all the supplies to prevent contact with this contagion will not matter if a) you do not know how to use them properly b) do not have enough supplies per person for many changes, c) you do not have a decontamination area d) a way to dispose of the contaminated supplies.
We are looking to a future of hard times. I believe that the drumbeats of WW3 have already begun. Given a real vote, no one would want any of this. The winners, however, will not be those “in control.” They have chosen poorly.
“And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.” Joshua 24:15
3.
3.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/ebola/11157106/Second-US-Ebola-victim-infected-despite-protective-suit.html
It’s called a “quarantine quandary” on Lew Rockwell.
“I’m all about liberty. […] But…”
Whoa, is that ever a slippery slope.
I read a freedomista article recently about the use of that tag on the end, ‘but’. …I wished I’d saved the link.
It didn’t shed a kind light on those who use that, “but”.
It was Very, “wiggle wiggle”.
There’s plenty of room to disagree, but there’s this:
“If you consider yourself a friend of freedom but endorse the State’s “rescuing” us from contagion, I hope you’ll read the piece and realize that in this area as in any other, government cannot and does not protect us. Rather, it will use this “crisis” to prey on us, as always.” …
http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/the-quarantine-quandary/
It’s a crazy situation. I don’t like at all the idea of this. But my question that I posted above: What is the solution? Should sick people be allowed to go wherever they want? Should well people just stay home? I don’t see any of these things, including quarantine, being ideal do you?
This story was linked to from sgtreport.com. I’ll tamp down the profanity and repost my comment from there.
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Absolute f–g horse s–t. They pull another hoax and because it has the scary word “ebola” in it, people crap their pants and beg to be subjugated.
“I’m all about liberty. I’m a hardcore libertarian who believes that the state should not have authority over my day-to-day activities.
But…”
But nothing. Another Charlie Brown american ready to cave in to martial law because (s)he is afraid of a word.
Your opinion is noted. So what’s the solution?
For this current ebola story, I would suggest people try to find out what is really going on. Jon Rappoport has really covered the story better that anybody I have seen. Here is a good place to start:
http://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/category/ebola/
If you dig, you won’t find anywhere that a victim has has the ebola virus isolated from samples taken from them – they have simply had PCR testing done which tells nothing. Jon covers that as well.
I’m sorry for sounding so harsh, but it has been very disappointing and frustrating to see so many people who know how everything is staged by TPTB but fall for a hoax like this one so easily.
I have no problem with harsh. I think we’re all feeling pretty intense about this. 🙂 Thanks for the links.
This is a great example of an obvious flaw inherent in “strict libertarianism.” We do not each live in isolation on our own planets, therefore we must consider how our own behavior affects the rights and freedom of others and agree to some limits. Just as we can see the need for some cooperation to limit the speed of cars on the neighborhood street where your child play or the need to disallow fracking right next to your water well, we can see the need to quarantine those who may carry potentially pandemic diseases such as Ebola. You yourself might “take responsibility” and go into isolation, just as you would likely drive carefully through a neighborhood street. However, an equally “liberty loving” member of your community may not choose such actions. Then what? Now your children and your property are in danger if he thinks it is okay to do 100 mph on your street, and your lives are in danger if he thinks it is okay to walk around after being exposed to Ebola.
My concern is this power can be used for political or immoral gain. I do not trust the government’s even handedness in any way. And there are doctors who would, at government’s request, mark a person as sick when they were not.
Mortal man has a perfect record of abusing any, and all power he is given. There are no exceptions.
”Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither.”
Ben Franklin
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/ebola/11157106/Second-US-Ebola-victim-infected-despite-protective-suit.html